Newsgroups: alt.messianic.jewish-orthodox From: jos boersema Subject: Found missing part of Torah in tribal America Organization: www.socialism.nl Reply-To: jos boersema Followup-To: Keywords: Summary: When studying the Torah, you might stumble unto something: the Torah has no state system, it has no laws to device a stat that is formally functional. What the Torah has is more or less 3 things: - Popular rebellions in favor of the Torah. A form of revolution. - It has the whole Temple system, with the high priests and the Levites, who where loyal. To a degree one could say this is part of the Government, comparable to an appelate or high court. - It lists - unfortunately - a dramatic history of Kings, who almost all rebelled against the Torah. Some Rabbis have suggested the absurdity that a Monarchy is what the Torah prescribes. If that where true the Torah would waste no words or time to install a family as Royalty. The Torah rather is angry with the jews for wanting a King, although it does permit a King to be installed, providing laws around it which usually apparently where all broken without a second thought. This "state system," isn't a formally functioning state system. First a Monarchy becomes overwhelming and exploitive, which is what the Torah predicts and usually true. Objectively speaking a Monarchy is a single person rule, a dictatorship to some degree. The Torah attempts to control the Monarch, but it only succeeded with very few Kings, as it itself predicted would happen (don't blame the Torah). Second the "Levites" become a special tribe because of their once shown loyalty. This may work for some time and be an emergency rule to deal with an otherwise hopelessly "stiff necked" people. It has little "eternity" value, IMHO. Note that the Torah predicts that it will one day unite all of Israel as one (?), if so the Torah already hints that there will be another time when there is no distinction between tribes (or is that only Menasje and Judah???). I note that when the Levites where chosen, it was because of the golden calf rebellion, in which they didn't participate. That put the Levites in their higher place, right ? God says about this golden calf rebellion that he wants to destroy all of Israel IIRC. Moshe prevents this, they kill the rebbels mostly. Eventually an unbalanced system is installed, a system that is not formally neutral. I mean: if anyone can get elected if only getting X number of votes, that is a formally neutral/blind protocol. If you say: only such and such families can get elected, then that is a protocol that is not neutral/blind but depending on certain special facts on the ground. I don't dispute these facts or say that there where better options, only that Israel potentially through its constant rebellion maneuvres itself in a position where a neutral state system becomes impossible. Had they put in a neutral system, Israel might have withered and been forgotten quickly. I say (as before): the Torah has no state system. What it has in terms of state is an unbalanced emergency set of rules to save the day. Does the Torah has a legal system: yes, it has laws and these are enforced. Its legal system seems reasonable extensive, certainly for the time. However whenever you start thinking "Ok, but where is the `organization' of the People, where is something like a state, or a deliberative decision making process," you come out with the Temple priesthood, or the Monarchy, or with a natural process of popular rebellion - which is not structured. If a decision should be made to rebuild a city its walls, is there a defined way to come together and decide this in the Torah ? Probably not. Much of the time the jews where a tribute Kingdom or under some kind of foreign occupation. When the walls of Jaresalayim are to be rebuild, a few men ask permission of a far away King, who orders it done. When a prophet demands a town surrender to a siege rather then fight: he addresses the ruler, rather then a formalized state system or mechanism. Therefore I see the Torah as a law system with a giant gap in it. Of course there are now Rabbis who claim Monarchy is what the Torah wants, but Rabbis are full of fantasy and low on Torah. * Now however I've found a system that can rightly be called Torah (you will know when you read it), and it has a formalized state system which is very balanced and democratic as well ! http://www.iroquoisdemocracy.pdx.edu/html/greatlaw.html The Mohawk, Onondaga, Seneca, Oneida and the Cayuga nations GREAT BINDING LAW, GAYANASHAGOWA. I'll list the state model *simplified* - A limited number of women holds the right to bestowe a Lord title to one of her sons. - The right to bestowe such title passes to the daughter. - The Lord must have a good character, be calm and promote peace. - When a Lord is chosen by the mother, the surrounding people in the clan may object (simplified, see laws for presice detail), which can lead to a different choice. - The Lord must also be accepted by other Lords. - When the Lord behaves wrong, he loses its title, the women holding the title choses another. - When a Lord kills someone, he loses the title, the women loses the right to bestowe the title, the right to bestowe the Lordship title is passed by other Lords to a sister or cousin family. - There are laws handling exceptions, details, symbols, and so on. - The Lords convene to make decisions. - When the matter is of great importance to all, the people convene themselves around Council fires, they can all convene together, or they can send representatives to a collective council fire. - The Lords are then compelled to follow the decision of the people. - If the Lords are wayward from the Great Peace, they are asked to come back several times, if not they are clubbed to death in an appropriate ritual. Then new Lords are installed. - War is carried out not by the Lords but by a War Chief, chosen for the nation by the Lords. - The weapons of war are burried. - The Council fire of the Confederacy of the 5 nations debates a matter first between the Lords of 2 nations and another 2 nations, always the same nations together. When these two groups of 2 reach the same decision, the 5th group confirms it. If they reach not the same decision the 5th group makes its own decision. Pretty sweet, isn't it ?! That is a state system (please check actual laws, my summary doesn't do it real justice). What would a prophet have done if this system operated in Israel: he could have addressed the people and Lords, these Lords would be relatively close to the people and there would be quite a few of them. Eventually the will of the people is followed, especially if the matter is of great importance to warrant direct democracy by the public, to which the Lords must bowe. If the Lords behave dishonorably - as they almost always did in Israel, going against a whole host of Torah laws - you could warn them as a people a number of times, and eventually kill them. Notice how Lords close to the public are infinitely more in touch with reality then a King tucked away in its palace and surrounded by parasitic wealth. The Great Law of Peace even references the Creator, just like the Torah ! It makes no images or anything of that nature of the Creater, who is "high in the sky." "The Cause of Peace shall not grow old." - says that Law, it is a Peace law. The Mohawk, Onondaga, Seneca, Oneida and the Cayuga nations have a formal state system which is a neutral protocol and allows extensive and eventually overwhelming power by the people. You could say of course that the power is vested in these families only. But this can change according protocol, and it is limited by the significant demands on the Lords. Therefore we might actually be in possession of a more complete Torah then we thought, the Great Peace Law has a formal state system that is neutral and democratic, where Israel has messed up so badly that it got stuck with emergency rules and even punishment through absolute Kings. On the other hand the Great Peace Law has no laws for land ownership, money lending and so on, the minimum laws that belong to a settled farming people. So both law systems complement each other in a round about way. It is also useful maybe to notice that the Great Peace law does not list any weird Temple services and "subjugation rituals to something." That stresses - like Torah says "where could you build me a Temple, I hammered out the whole Earth" - that Temple service and so on and all the subjugation rituals, are purely and only for the benefit of Israel, to get her away from the insane worship of child-eating idol fantasies. There is no such weird rituals or slaughter and sacrifice - although sacrifice can have a certain function I guess: as punishment for crimes, to show human power over great animals, to support the priest-hood its livelyhood, to show political support to the rest of Israel for the Torah. * Of course my own law system (www.socialism.nl) has both a formally neutral democratic system (both representative and direct), and laws needed for farming / industrial peoples (distribute land, non-profit finance, more), and does not have any laws about a Temple service of any kind. Like the Torah and the Great law of Peace, my system suggests the moral good is the only good (http://www.socialism.nl/~joshb/technical_darwinism.html) Isn't that a sweet thought: we got the whole Torah delivered on our world (state system, farming laws, other general and moral laws). One part in Israel, and another essential part in the native Indian Conferedate law. Almost like "if Israel can't carry the Torah forward on these points, then it will be delivered/developed elsewhere (eventually) instead." --