Normally I wouldn't think of making up ideas about how/when one should or shouldn't try to change another person their belief, but since it is an historical issue ... My idea would be: do whatever you like, what do I have to say about that. People having different ideas creates opportunity to have more interesting debates, when everyone beliefs the same thing then the debate is over and in itself that's a loss, isn't it. Separation of belief (belief in a DAVID system) and the state ? If you like that, go ahead, if you don't, then don't. What do I have to say about that ! I'm not your boss. One thing that is definitely a bad thing, is to deny people the freedom to belief whatever they want, or to force the belief in a DAVID system unto them. At the same time, I can't live inside a DAVID economic system unless enough people around me want to set it up. Or to put it more precisely: I personally can not work in a cleaning business, or create a cleaning business, that will work in an equitable way and have a decent future, because around here the capitalist system rules. I'm denied land, I'm denied fair influence over Government and the immediate local Government (the system does not allow it), I will be denied power as a cleaner if I'm going to work for an existing cleaning business, I will be denied a fair share of the profit. I will be abused as if I was a slave, by people more ignorant and incompetent then even I am. If I set up my own cleaning business the way I like it, then I will eventually be attacked and destroyed by private investment capital sooner or later. Unless I change the business according to their vision of exploitation, which is an even worse form of capitulation, namely assimilation into their bad ways. So the problem for me, or you if you are in the same situation, becomes one circle bigger then yourselves: you want to live a decent life, you can't because the system denies it, and then you want to live and work in a productive group marketing some product - for example a cleaning business - but you can't because the system is hostile, overly aggressive. The price competition is too harsh because of all the exploitation going on of cleaners, the capital will go to the most abusive bosses and that's precisely what you don't want to be or work for. The people to make contracts with are almost all bosses invested in by private capital, all will seek maximum return and try to punch prices to the bottom. Virtually all are the slaves of the financiers that put them in their positions. Such a degenerated market system, it just isn't a nice place to work in. Many people don't understand the system and will imagine to themselves they can make it, but they are deluding themselves. Most will no doubt think the system is fair and neutral, but capital is not neutral. They don't understand the long term of the system itself. Since things are indeed subtle, and failure is often the fault of the business, and you can indeed ask too high prices and so on and so forth: the subtle snake of capitalism is overlooked, while its venom infests absolutely everything, absolutely everything, absolutely everything. Maybe their business survives for long, but it will change nothing. By the time they could notice their life is over. They usually never know what happened or why. Chances are most capitalists neither know, merely the pawns in a system they don't understand either. The system has its own logic, like a law of nature. So then it becomes another circle bigger: we need to change the city, the local investors, the Government system, the land system. Because that is what is holding us back. But the local system, the county or province, is just a part ruled by the nation. You can't change the investment system, the land system, the local Government democratic system, without changing it where the sovereign power and the Constitution are held: the national Government. The other alternative would be separation from the state. No need to get into that, an armed struggle. Who wants to invest time in such a sad effort. Unfortunately then it becomes really big. We can't change Holland exclusively into a correct economic model, in order to have locally good democracy, sound money investment that does not reward and stimulate abuses of people, fair land distribution, without the rest of the capitalists in the whole world noticing a nation has broken away from the capitalist model. If our DAVID model proves to work, the capitalists in other nations will have reason to fear their own populations will also want to establish a DAVID model economy. Since they probably don't want to allow this, and we have seen in the past how violent the capitalists are when it comes to defend their order, chances are high we'll face the same problems as we'd probably face if we tried to separate the local area out from the nation: violent attacks, all kinds of unfair dealings to force us to our knees. In the flurry of problems the DAVID system is lost, it certainly won't deliver as it could have in a neutral environment. Especially if our model is more of a success, or expected to be more of a success (which by no means is guaranteed, everything is human work): the more success we could have with our lives, the more nervous and violent foreign capitalist classes could get against us. If we are really successful, chances are at a maximum that we'll get nuked, or suffer major attacks of all sorts, until we are either all dead, or suffer so badly that the foreign media can portray our DAVID experiment as a failure (although that may very well have been caused by their own failure, their failure to leave us alone). And that simply can mean: we need the entire world to come to the conclusion that a DAVID system is a good thing, so that they will not allow their capitalist classes to attack our nation, so that we can change our nation, to change my or your local neighborhood, so that my and your business can work fairly, and you and me can finally have a decent life (hopefully, if it works). The goal is rather not to change people their minds, but rather to get them to leave us alone ! That is simply the situation: the (expected) violence of the capitalist classes forces us to find a method that allows us to do what we want in our own nation or at least local area. In principle any method qualifies, changing other peoples their attitude to our DAVID experiment is just one possible answer. If the capitalists decided no longer to attack nations that break from the capitalist model, then there is no reason anymore to seek the whole world to support a DAVID type system. Unfortunately the word of capitalists is worth nothing, we can't trust that class on its word (although it is always worth a shot I guess). The goal is not at all to change the whole world their minds. They can believe whatever they want to believe, why would that bother us ? The problem is to find a way that they would seize to want to deny us our freedom in our own nation or local area. One of the ways to do that, perhaps one of the more promising ways, is to make a DAVID system popular within other capitalist countries. That way we can perhaps not only make our lives better, but also the lives of other people who are suffering within their capitalist nations from the same problems. Since these people are also our brothers and sisters, if they want to listen, why not try to help them. So I guess it works a little bit like: if you see your brother, a foreign national, and you see he is carrying a water tank with a hole in it, then you could decide to say "hey, you've got a hole in it." If he doesn't know he'll be happy. On the other hand you could decide to say nothing, and hope he'll discover it himself. But if he already knew and agrees with the hole, then telling him/her is useless harassment. That is not good. That hurts us, the "movement for a DAVID system" (if there ever will be such a thing.) So there is absolutely NO "obligation" (huh!?!) to make anyone change their minds about anything. Neither is there an "obligation" (huh?!? Am I your daddy ? Am I your King ?!? No. No, no, no, no, no!) to not change anyone their minds, either. The only problem is: how can we secure the freedom from foreign invasion and politically motivated trade war to do whatever we want in our own nation or local area. If the capitalist system hadn't such a hair-trigger toward violence, there'd be no problem. You don't believe the capitalist order is violent ? Then you don't know neither your history, or the logic of the capitalist system, or where we are with human evolution or what its stage is at the moment. If another nation wants to be capitalist, or feudal, or whatever: the best of luck to them ! No better way to find out if they are right or wrong but for them to try, and we no doubt will also learn more from such very interesting experiments. You might also notice when carefully studying this site (www.socialism.nl) that a DAVID system isn't the only answer supported here - small local power can also work. In a sort of plan-economic set up but very small groups: reason being the anonymity is low and the trade exists between the different areas and that can also be barter so you don't even need money (such set ups do not function in highly industrialized densely populated nations like Holland I think, but it shows that a DAVID system isn't the only answer, neither necessarily the best answer for every problem. Perhaps not even here, who knows, doing is knowing.) Except as in a joke, real "world domination" is not a goal. Why would it be ? Everyone should believe whatever they want, may the most successful ideas last longest ... or rather may everyone be happy with their own society, that is the whole point of it isn't it. Actually the best way to show whether a DAVID system is superior, is to allow people with different ideas to live according to their ideas. Spreading through practical success is by far the best way. Both for them and us. But the capitalist order can not afford that game. They will lose it, and they know it too. They are bad losers, so they are trying to cheat their defeat using violence (which maybe they believe is a justified part of the game.) If only the capitalist order would allow an initial attempt - which it almost certainly will not. See its reaction to the USSR for example, or Cuba. The capitalist order is itself a failed experiment, causing unbelievable amounts of suffering, only sustaining itself through state propaganda and lies. The minute there is a real alternative is pretty much the minute they are wiped off the face of the Earth by all populations seeking relief, and that would then be the end of their game of greed and wealth without having to work for it. For the capitalist ruling classes that it. Having said that: there is a pretty good chance we will manage to erect a minuscule DAVID experiment in all honesty within a nation that is enthusiastic about the new system, and have it be assessed fairly on its merits that way (which will still be tricky with potentially so many hostile capitalists in the world). * Should you try to change someone else's mind to support a DAVID system ("according to me," as if that means anything?) No. No, you /should/ not feel obligated to do something like that /at all./ Not uttering a single word about a DAVID system your whole life is /perfectly fine./ Everyone should make up their own mind, and if they believe in some sub-standard order (according to you or me), then what's the problem ? Aren't they entitled to experience it and discover it could be better in their own sweet time (as indeed they hopefully feel toward us, with our "hopelessly flawed DAVID belief.") If only they'd leave us alone and we them, that's all we need. OR maybe not "leave alone," that sounds so harsh and unfriendly. But leave us do what we want, and we leave them do what they want, best of luck to everyone, best of luck indeed. * In other words, this DAVID stuff is *not* a "religion" (huh?!?!) that "demands' (huh?!?!) its "followers" (huh huh ?!?!) to try to "convert" (what in the heavens name is that ?!?!?!?!) others. Some "other" (huh?) "religions" (oh that) have on their books such an obligation, such an obligation does absolutely *not* exist here. Playing nice and wait and wait, and wait and wait and wait some more. That is the game plan, don't have to say a single word, don't have to talk to a single person about it, ever. People want to hear it ? Fine ! Great ! Not ? Fine too ! Good luck to all ! Respecting what people believe is a human way to relate to other people, as long as it isn't directly criminal or violent what they are doing (as, as a matter of fact, selling money for profit is, it is not directly or necessarily intentionally violent).